Malossi 210 vs Polini 210

[PX200E]

มาแล้วครับป๋าสำหรับสมาชิกที่ลังเลมาอ่านให้หายข้องใ จกันไปเลยอ่านให้จบนะ ว่าจะเลือกเอาอันให้ ฝรั่งมันอธิบายใช้ฟังอย่างชัดเจนแล้ว เลือกเอาเองล่ะกันอิอิ ค่าข้อข้อมูลขอ1เมา แปลเองนะอิอิถ้าไม่อยากแปลจะเล้าให้ฟังคิดอีกสองเมาอ ิอิ

The Malossi 210 currently seems to be the most popular cylinder conversion kit for the Vespa P200 today. The other main rivals are Pinasco and Polini.....both good reputable brands.

The Pinasco is an aluminium cylinder with hard-chrome liner, in comparison to the Polini which is a cast iron unit and the Malossi which is also aluminium with Nickasil liner.

The main difference here (apart from weight) is cooling ability, the Aluminium cylinder will cool far mor efficiently that a cast iron cylinder and thus reduce the potential for seizing. The Nickasil bore however, does not allow for rebores (in a cost effective manner), where as a steel lined cylinder does. So of the 3 cylinders, the Pinasco and Malossi have the cooling efficiencies of aluminium, but not the re-bore potential of the Polini steel lined cylinder.

The Pinasco is however (in my opinion) more of a touring kit, if you take a look at the layout of the cylinders ports, the style of piston and the fact that it stil only uses the single main crankcase transfer of the standard P200, its not a kit that is designed towards max power and peaky revs. It is however, an excellent 'step-up' from a standard cylinder, for someone who wishes to gain some extra power and speed for touring etc, and can provide that extra power in a reliable and efficient manner.

The Polini however, is a step closer to a more performance based layout than the Pinasco.....but not the 'full screamer' like the Malossi. So lets take a look at some 'tech specs' to undersatnd this a bit better.

Below: Polini on the left and Malossi on the right. On initial appearances they look very similar, but lets go a bit deeper.

Above: Polini port layout, looks very good compared to a Pinasco or standard P200, almost similar to the Malossi below.

Below: View of Mallossi port layout.






Port Spec:

So lets put some measurements to a couple of the ports....how do the two cylinders compare ?

Malossi:

Exhaust port width = 44mm

Exhaust port height = 24mm (32mm from top of cylinder)

Transfer port = 42mm wide (46mm from top of cylinder)

Polini:

Exhaust port width = 39mm

Exhaust port height = 24mm (37mm from top of cylinder)

Transfer port = 36mm wide (47mm from top of cylinder)

Below: The difference in the size of the exhaust ports (as outlined in the figures above) can be clearly seen in the image below. The Malossi cylinder on the left has a visibly larger exhaust port than the Polini. The Malossi exhaust port can also be lowerd at the bottom edge, to match the piston crown at BDC.





Result?

As you will see from both the images and the measurements above, the Polini is tuned for power that is lower down the rev range. The exhasut port is narrower, the transfers are narrower and all ports are much lower down the cylinder wall.....giving better bottom end power, and making the Polini less peaky and revvy. Of course the Malossi can be made to rev lower with a less peaky pipe, and the Polini can be helped to rev out with a more peaky pipe...so that their rev ranges are not so vastly different....but that is not how the cylinder ports have been designed, and not how peak performance can be realised for each kit. The Malossi should run best with a peaky pipe, a race expansion chamber...so that the it can make the most of its high 'peaky' port lay out. The Polini should run an expansion chamber that is more conducive to low down torque, and mid range punch....than trying to have a screaming top end. Also, the Malossi has the advantage of effienct aluminium cooling to 'back up' its rev range....the Polini may suffer over heating and seizing problems if it were run too hard and at too high revs, for too long.





Above: View of side transfer ports on both kits, the Malossi has marginally longer side ports than the Polini.

Below: On the base of the cylinder, the boost port is actually visibly larger on the Polini kit than on the Malossi. It measures 37mm on the Malossi and 41mm on the Polini, although it does have a double bridge in the port, rather than a single on the Malossi. Increased bridge surface area can disturb gas flow, and as per the tuning spec highlighted later....the Malossi boost port can easily be opend up.





Below: Again the transfer port reaches much deeper down the cylinder wall on the Polini, as previousely mention...all ports on the Polini are lower than the Malossi.....making the Polini less peaky.






Having compared the cylinders, we can establish that the Malossi is a lighter cylinder, that cools more heat-efficiently than the Polini, and its port layout is conducive to peaky revs and top end power. So if mid-range punch and torque are your thing, then the Polini is a viable kit. If top end and peaky power is your game....look to the Malossi.

With that in mind.....what are other key elements of the Malossi against the Polini, and what can be done to enhance the charecteristics of the kits?





Above: Transfer ports....its something we come back to again and again on Vespa and Lambretta scooters. In comparison to modern design, the transfer ports are the biggest let-down of scooter engine design. By enlarging the surface area of the transfer ports (see porting work on side and boost transfers above) and also cutting away a portion of the cylinder wall.....we can vastly increase the performance of the kit. Further improvements can be made with ali-welding and re-carving new ports.....but within the perameters of the existing surfaces, extensive porting work and enlarging of the transfer area will provide fantastic performance results.

Below: Note how Malossi also increase the transfer area by hollowing out the sides of the piston that match to the cylinder transfers.....utillising piston area as a transfer port! The Polini piston has port holes cut into the piston....but not nearly as extensivly as the Malossi. One well known upgrade to the Polini...is to use a Malossi piston, to increase the transfer area....the Polossi kit!





Below: A cagiva 125 cylinder next to a Malossi cylinder, merely to illustrate how modern 2-stroke design incorporates massive ports and transfers as part of their standard production performance. Those sider transfers must be at least 4 times as large as the Malossi!



Engine cases






Above and below: The standard P200 engine cases should have porting work done to them to make use of the transfer ports that are incorporated in the cylinder kits. The standard P200 cylinder uses a single transfer at the top of the cylinder, where as Polini and Malossi kits use a large port at the top, and also 2 side transfers. Whichever kit you use, it should be matched up to the casings, and used as a guide to carve out the correct amount of metal to match up to the cylinder. It no use having extra transfer ports on your cylinder, if the engine case just blocks all those ports!

The kit will of course run better than a standard cylinder even without porting the casings....but if top performace is your goal....then the cases must be ported. Its just common sense. A past article in Scootering magazine demonstrated (using a dyno reading) that merely bolting on a Malossi 210 cylinder, with no other altterations (other than jetting and timing) only gave a 2bhp improvement....but with additional porting and an expansion chamber, it gave approx 9bhp extra than standard!

Also, as mentioned earlier, the cylinder and casings can be ali-welded to build up new surface area, and then carve out massive race-style transfer ports, this is quite a time consuming task, but the results are fantastic.

However, that is a fairly adavance technique....and not recomended for every day use, but matching up your engine casings to the kit definitely is recomended.





Below: A cylinder head that has been machined to give correct squish clearances for the kits. If you change your cylinder kit....the Pinasco actually does come with a replacement cylinder head (bonus!) but Malossi and Polini do not. If you run with a standard cylinder head, amongst other problems, you may encounter pinking and overheating due to incorrect squish clearances.....this can ultimately result in a seize or holed piston.....make sure you machine your cylinder head....or buy one that is done to match your kit. Also consider the fact that most (if not all) cylinder kits require the ignition timing to be changed to some degree.....Pinasco requires timing to be set to 20deg BTDC, and the Malossi and Polini to 18deg BTDC, in comparison to the standard timing of 23 deg BTDC.





Article Summary:

It all depends on what your goal and budget is....as to how you choose your kit...and also then what you do with it, everyone will have a slightly different requirement.

If you want a cheap and reliable power boost, with no extra porting...go for the Pinasco 215...it even comes with a cylinder head, has the cooling efficiency of aluminium and has a very durable hard-chrome bore for long life. Bolt on performance on a budget!

If you want a step up from that, something with a tad more mid-range punch, and a bit of extra top end performance....try the Polini. Its a great kit, well priced, with good performance charecteristics, and wont scream like a Malossi....which is good thing as far as your crank, gearbox and clutch life are concerned. It can be run with standard porting on the casings, but really benefits from the porting work being done. A large carb and mid-range touring pipe will help get the best from the kit. Its cast iron, so don't tune and thrash it like a Malossi if you want it to last, but if you do blow it....it can be re-bored.

Lastly, if you are into balls to the wall performance, then Malossi is your man. The kit can be run as a tourer, with the right pipe and carb....but that is not the kits destiny. If you want to tour, get a Pinasco or Polini....if you want to get your freak on, go for the Malossi. Again, can be run with standard porting on the casings, but really benefits from the porting work being done...and further more, when it is done (and maybe some additional tweaks) the kit will scream. Match a tuned cylinder to ported casings, add a reed valve, race crank, JL3 Race pipe and Mikuni 35mm TMX carb......and you've got a TS1 eating Vespa. The Lambretta boys (of which i'm one) don't like to admit it.....but 30hp, Lambo eating Vespas can be achieved, and reliable ones at that!

เครดิตเวบ http://munkey6969.googlepages.com/home

มีอีกนะ เดียวเอามาฝากอีก

[PX200E]

อ่านดีๆมีสาระ เลือกใช้ท่อแบบไหนเหมาะสมกัยรถเรา
so you wanna buy a pipe, eh?

there are several things to consider about pipes. the first thing to know is what you want out of the bike. if you want a real screamer, then an expansion chamber is the only way to go. if you want a fat midrange and good highway cruising, perhaps a tuned exhaust is the best choice. but if you don't know what you want, you won't be happy when you get something else, right?

that said, you should know that the exhaust is the one of the most important factors in twostroke performance. without getting too geeky about it, the fundamental characteristics of the cylinder are more important to _making_ power, while the exhaust determines how the power is delivered. the neat thing is that a shitty (read:stock) barrel can get a boost from a nice pipe, and a kit barrel will get a HUGE boost. a pipe is a great bolt-on modification.... here's why.

2T engines rely on the characteristics of the exhaust to determine how much of the burnt gas exits, and also, how much fresh gas gets to stay in the cylinder. now on a 4T engine, the exh.'s main goal is scavenging burnt fuel from the cylinder. but on a 2T, where the transfer ports letting in fresh mix are right across from the exhaust port, too much scavenging will suck unburnt mix right across the top of the piston and into the exhaust before the port closes (and thus, it never gets burned!)

enterally, the first cone of the chamber is really good at scavenging. it's the converging cone that solves the scavenging probem, tho, because it creates a backpressure wave that crams the gas back into the barrel right before the piston closes the exh. port back up. pretty slick, huh?

but all pipes are not equal. here are some choices:

for p2s

gofast pipe (scootershop, CA):
nice chrome, but really didn't do anything for my friend cleveland phil's bike. sounds fantastic, tho.

toyshop pipe the (scooter cafe, CA:)
cheap @180 bucks, but really a high-rev-only pipe. nonetheless, you will definitely beat stock bikes easily, even with a stock top end... until you start cruising on the highway with a p200 ridiculously-high stock fourth gear. you lose a lot of midrange and can't pull hills as easily in 4th gear. i found it to work much better with a stock top end than a rev-happy kit barrel, as the stock top end's torquier midrange can more easily cope with the tradeoff between midrange and overrev power. one thing that realllllly helps for a kitted bike is a bigger carb. the difference between my phbh30 and my si24/24 was like night and day... higher wheelies, much fatter midrange than i expected. i had this pipe and liked it, for the money. HOWEVER, if you are going to go all out with a kit (and why not?), don't waste yr money on a pipe that's best suited to a stock barrel....

pm tuning pm24ev :
nice. quiet, fast, big midrange and nice top-end. i was soundly trounced by a stock bike with a pm when i had my toyshop and a stock barrel. the fight lasted until the end of 2d gear, then he was gone. about $350 from the UK, and you can get it with a carbon can if you like. they sound like no other... crazy tink-tink-tink sound. very racy.

taffspeed mk4 goldline:
about the same as the pm, but "double-wall" stainless construction or something, supposed to be more durable. a little more expensive than the pm, i . slightly better peak power in the german scootering test, and they liked it best of all. you will pay for the privilege, however.

sip performance exhaust (germany, but on the internet)
$300-350 gets you a pipe verrrry similar in power to the taffy, plus it's made of stainless steel. you can't keep yr spare tire, tho -- the pipe rides too high. but it's extra wide to allow you to use a 4x10 tire no problems. vespa motorsport in CA has started selling this pipe now for $345, but i don't know how that compares to current exchange rates of the deutschmark (after shipping is figured in).

my personal experience with the s.i.p. pipe has been awesome. slapping it on a malossi with a stroker rotary valve crank and 30 phbh dellorto resulted in fun 1-2 shifts complete with flapping handlebars and wildly waving feet (as i waited for the wheelie to end the first time i ran it out) and easily 10 to 15 mph faster than i was getting with the toyshop pipe. it's just that good.

and now for the tuned exhausts:

leovinci/pinasco/polini/simonini:
these are not real expansion chambers, no matter what anyone tells you. they are noisemakers. nonetheless, the polini/pinasco ones seem to boost power pretty nicely. they're loud as fuck, considering they have do have baffles (this is what makes them not true expansion chambers. the leovinci's muffler always falls off, leading it to sound like a chainsaw.

sito plus:
this is a nice pipe for crusing and hanging around town. not loud at all, and it's got the most torque low down of any of these pipes (great for pulling hills.) pretty cheap if a shop has em 'on sale.' most beginners at modifying bikes want torque, not a peaky, revvy motor. this is what they want. (but i predict eventually they'll 'see the light' and go for a better pipe, at which point the sito goes in the trash and y'r out 80 bucks.

zirri:
zirri has a crazy following among few ppl - but those ppl love them! this pipe looks like a 'left hand' expansion chamber similar to the pm, but i believe it has baffles (and that's why it's in this category. scooter center koln sells these... try it out!

[PX200E]

cylinder kits can be a lot of fun, but they are also no guarantee of instant rip roaring performance. at the same time, they're not guaranteed to be unreliable, either. if you want a faster bike, here's some things you should know:

1. get a pipe, too!
the exhaust is one of the most important factors in twostroke tuning. this is not to say that you should build an engine to suit an exhaust, but that you should definitely budget money to spend on a suitable pipe! a leo vinci ain't going to make you 20 hp, even if it's hung on a full reedvalve malossi motor.
having a kickass cylinder and carb will not help you if yr exhaust can't get rid of all that burnt gas. when my expansion chamber was being fixed and the stock exhaust was re-installed, the cut crank and match ported malossi were dumping so much gas in there that the plug fouled in about 45 minutes. of breathing in compressed oxygen, then having to exhale thru a virginia slim. for god's sake, get a pipe.
here are some choices

2. decide what kind of power you want
the malossi kit is obviously the strongest, but it makes its power at high revs. if you want "streetable" midrange grunt, get a polini. the same goes for carb purchases - bigger carbs will mostly boost yr high-rev power, anyway.

3. resolve to treat it right
this means that you'll not only break it in right and set the timing with a light, but that you'll also buy all the parts it might need to really work right.... unless you want to buy clutch plates every 1000 mi, you'll want stiff clutch springs...unless you want to replace yr tranny, you'll re-shim it frequently... etc.

4. get used to buying more (and more, and more) stuff til y'r satisfied
the kit and the pipe alone won't cut it. you'll need things like a cut crank or fullcircle crank (if y'r using a reedvalve), new bearings if it needs em, new, stronger clutch springs and other things like a lighter flywheel if you have a revvy kit, or an upgear kit if you just want hwy. cruising. kits aren't just bolt on items, and you have to know this going in... it's the whole package that makes a bike fast. if you have ridden an all-out bike (that's what made me want to tune), you will not be satisfied until you do all the modifications that bike had (unless its owner was a lousy mechanic). so resolve to spend money.
also important is finding someone who can do the porting for you if you don't you can do it yrself. believe me, it makes a big difference.

okay, sermon's over. now let's talk about some of the barrels:

for p200s

the malossi 210 has the best power/reliability reputation out there. it's aluminum, with a nikasil bore (nickel and silicon coating), so it stays cool . just bolting it on is good for 14 hp, according to s.i.p., and with match porting expect much more. this kit is compatible with the stock carb and oil injection, but they recommend a cut crank. mazzuchelli makes some 'ready-made,' or a machine shop can cut yrs back for you. in addition, you must modify yr head - the supershop can do this for you, or you can buy an aftermarket central-plug head, which will also boost yr power a little. with a reed and a radical carb, you can make as much as 20 hp.

note: the malossi kits from germany come with pistons that can be further modified to gain performance. the 'windows' near the crown and next to the wristpin can be cut out further, and s.i.p. marks these areas for you. figure on doing so while y'r match porting yr cases.

the polini 208 is pretty powerful -- bolt-on, @ 17 horse. however, since it's cast-iron like a stock barrel, it is more seize-prone than the pinasco or malossi. part of this can be alleviated by having the barrel honed or bored over slightly, keeping the original piston. in addition, it goes without saying that you have to time this kit with a light and be careful jetting it in. this kit has much more midrange thump than a malossi. like the malossi, it does not come with a head. i've seen some in scootering that are claiming 24-27 hp on the dyno. so figure more like 18-20hp, max. and it's cheap!! @ about 100 to 120 bucks.

saint louis tuners recently told me a good option for reliability is to put a malossi piston in a polini, tho this will require a small overbore and match porting of skirt to transfers, etc. whether this saves you any money over just buying a malossi depends on how cheap you can get yr machinist to do the modifications, i suppose. now that i have the bike with this setup, i can tell you it hauls ass AND it's possible to rebore it if it seizes.

the pinasco 213 is not something i know a whole helluva lot about. it's aluminum, like a malossi, w/ a nikasil bore. unlike the malossi, it uses only one transfer from case (i )and makes good power. legendary power, actually, since no one i know has one and all the stories are thus 'legends.' ha ha ha.
it's supposed to be great for touring.... and you can do a twin-carb setup for it!
i don't know, if you have something to add, email me using the button below.

for p125s


the malossi 166 is not really a kit i know a lot about. but here's what jake thought about it: the 7 transfers beat out the pinasco's 5, and it's also light and nikasilled to take punishment. why don't i let him speak in his own words here...

"BUT if you are a cast iron road bastard, the Malossi is for you!!! POWER and maybe because of it, SEX too! heh heh heh..."

the polini 177 is a common choice for 125s and 150s, and will even shoehorn itself onto older bikes as well. it takes carbs between 24 and 28 mil easily, and as usual will work best with either a reed or a cut crank. cost-wise, pretty effective. you will probably want an upgear kit unless you just like to drag.

the pinasco 177 is, according to the sage advice of scott spaeth from hardluck sc in st. louis, much better than a crappy ol polini. truthfully, the fact that its aluminum and nikasil means it's probably more durable. it's also more expensive. jake points out, however, that it's cheaper than the malossi and it comes with an alu. head. so there are lots of benefits.

for smallframes

the polini 133 is much more popular here than in the 200 cc class, and ppl i know have used them with pretty good reliability results. i have no idea what the horsepower gain is, but it's pretty fat versus a stock bike. paired with a race crank (you must get one) and a 19 or 24 mil carb, you can expect between 60 and 70 mph out of the bike, but the main gain will be quickness. that, and wheelies.

the malossi 136 is a full-race screamer. this kit needs a reed to really work out right, and a huge honkin carb may be fit to match. i know ppl are running around out there w/ 28 mil flatslides!! a good pipe for either this or the polini can be found on the pipe page. hey, if you go with the reed option, you can also run the reeds into the cylinder (instead of into the case) so the carb sticks out the body. baddddd assssss.

of course, the alleged pinnacle of smallframe tuning is the zirri mr2000 . this is sort of a tuning system more than it is a simple kit; zirri recommends you buy their manifold, cylinder, crank, and exhaust if you want results. i have never known anyone who had one, but let's just look at 'the facts':

- 6-petal reedblock into the cylinder (note: you will have to block up yr old inlet) with carb stickin out the engine door ( baby).
- huuuuge transfers (7, i )
- bombproof fullcircle crank
- funky p2-style pipe
- new head

now let's look at what s.i.p. has to say (if ever there was a funnier translation into english, i don't know it):
"all those suzuki-malossi tin-can conversion heroes can eat yr dust -- and their hearts out". nuff said, then.

[ฝูงบิน px.]

สรุปคือยังไงว่ะเมี่ยงคุง อยากได้ประเภทที่ไม่ต้องมานั่งแปล เอา1เมาใช่มั๊ย เดี๋ยวจะได้จัดให้ แต่ เหล้า ทบ.นะ อิ...อิ...
แปลให้ด้วย งงวู้ยๆ....em93

[สะมอเฟรม]

เอามาให้ดูเพิ่ม ของคันที่บ้านครับ
ช่องพอตที่ต้องเปิดเพิ่ม
ถ้าไม่เปิด ก็เหมือนไม่ได้ใส่ ลองมาแล้วem85

รับประกันความจัดจ้าน เวลาขึ้นดอยครับ สำหรับโพลินี่ชุดนี้

[PX200E]

เอามาให้ดูเพิ่ม ของคันที่บ้านครับ
ช่องที่ต้องเปิดเพิ่ม
ถ้าไม่เปิด ก็เหมือนไม่ได้ใส่ ลองมาแล้วem85

รับประกันความจัดจ้าน เวลาขึ้นดอยครับ สำหรับโพลินี่ชุดนี้

ไปเชียงรายมาด้วยกันแล้วครับป๋าคันนี้อ่ะคริๆ
อันนี้แน่นอครับป๋า อิอิ เปิดพอต ดันมีหลายสูตรอีก เอ้า อิอิต่อไปนี้ก็สูตรใครสูตรมันล่ะเด้อ อิอิ
หุๆๆมาเลี้ยงที่เจียงใหม่ด้วยนะ ที่อื่นไม่นับ อิอิ สนใจอ่ะดิมารอซซี่อ่ะจัดยังครับเจ๊ ไม่มีท่ออั้นนะจะบอกให้em94

[สะมอเฟรม]

อีกนิด

[สะมอเฟรม]

อันนี้รถสำมะเพ็ง ดู ซะก่อนem93

แบนด์เนมได้อีก

[PX200E]

ยาวไปครับพี่ มีอีกอย่างเคล็ดไม่ลับ เลย ง่ายๆแต่ยังไม่บอก แต่บางคนคงรู้แล้วแหล่ะ ถ้าไม่มี ลงคิทยังไงก็เอาไม่อยู่ อิอิ
หุหุ คาร์บูกะคอ เหอๆอย่า จอดแถวเชียงใหม่นะอิอิมีสอย

[สะมอเฟรม]

ต่อนะ

[แบงค์ px150]

อันนี้รถสำมะเพ็ง ดู ซะก่อนem93

แบนด์เนมได้อีก

สุดยอดเลย

[สะมอเฟรม]

ส่วนpolini 210 ตัวใหม่ มาแล้วนะ
โทรมาสั่งซะดีๆเลย
รออยู่ครับห.น ต้น

[Rally210]

รอแป๊บนึงเดี๋ยวพี่เขาไปธุระกลับมาคงจัดเลย

[ฝูงบิน px.]

ไปเชียงรายมาด้วยกันแล้วครับป๋าคันนี้อ่ะคริๆ
อันนี้แน่นอครับป๋า อิอิ เปิดพอต ดันมีหลายสูตรอีก เอ้า อิอิต่อไปนี้ก็สูตรใครสูตรมันล่ะเด้อ อิอิ
หุๆๆมาเลี้ยงที่เจียงใหม่ด้วยนะ ที่อื่นไม่นับ อิอิ สนใจอ่ะดิมารอซซี่อ่ะจัดยังครับเจ๊ ไม่มีท่ออั้นนะจะบอกให้em94

ไม่ปล่อยแล้วท่ออะ เก็บไว้ยาวๆ พอดีช่วงนี้ช๊อต ก็เลยคิดสั้นไปนิดนึง ตอนนี้ลงตัวละ กำลังหาคิทพี่รอสซี่มาใส่ละ เช็คราคาไว้ที่ 12,000 คงจะจัดเร็วๆนี้ เอาไว้ขึ้นดอยปลายปี/\3/\2

[Nine_px177]

พี่เจตไปถ่ายรถส่งของของร้านป๋ามาด้วยสปิ้นสีเขียวโค ตรแรงงง

ที่นี่รถส่งของสำเพ็งแรงๆลงของเยอะๆเพียบเลย

พี่โต่งจะเอาแรงกว่านี้อีกหรอ ระวังกินแกลบน๊าค้าบบบบบบบบบบบบบบ em94em94